Close Combat GJS War Strategy Discussion

[RD_Steiner]

Men...post strategy discussion here......Col. Ronson.......whats our 1st move??

[RD Ronson]

Welcome Gentlemen of the Team:)
Hi just to say I managed to get on here, no first move as I have yet to see the file, but a brief look at the layout on the Pzt site leads me to think of pushing forwards into neutral maps just to fight delaying actions.
I expect hard German attack to come from North, where his main strenght appears to be. I'm confident we can hold in West and in South, so we'll reinforce the North to create a double line. Try to establish a defence line in the South. Try to be agressive in the West against his forces there and keep him on the defensive.

I'll have more to say once I've looked at the file.

Cheers
Ronson

[RD Ronson]

Hi Gentlemen,

So as we can get this operation off I've come up with some orders after looking at the file:- As you know anyone can do the Strat moves so we need to understand that we are fighting to hold onto ground and moves will be made to that effect. When we do move forwards we simply do so to dealy the enemy, we're not attempting to capture the map. Some times it will be enough to move in during AM turn , out in the PM turn and back in the next day. I expect his main attack to come from the North, with a faint in the South. we will keep reserves to counter this scenario.

1st Move:-

22/7
Will move from COURSELLES into HILLMAN


8/3 CDN
REMAIN STATIC Naval support

9/3
REMAIN STATIC Mortar

146/49
Will move from BRETTEVILLE into RAURAY Mortar

9/3 CDN
Will move from JUVIGNY into TILLEY Mortar & Air

147/49
REMAIN STATIC Mortar

131/7
Will move from VILLIERS into GAVRUS

130/43
Will move from CARPIQUET into CAEN

44/15
Will move from BURON into ABBAYE

185/3
REMAIN STATIC Mortar & Air

227/15 *
Will move from BOURGUEBUS into HILL112 ORNE Mortar & Air

214/43
Will move from THURY HARCOURT into VIMONT


The unit marked * the 227/15 will need to move onto HILL112 ORNE and expand itself rapidly to cover the THURY HARCOURT exit. This is absolutely vital as this will seal off his unit into the map. It must also hold while we find out which direction the enemy Southern thrust is going to take.

Air Support seems to vary each time I open the file so I have earmarked most important, use any extra as you see fit.

Any comments ?

This operation will start as soon as the whole team has registered at this site.

all messages to be in this thread please, the private messages at the top just lead to advertising sites.

Cheers
Ronson

[dgfred1]

Hey, I finally made it. 1st try something went wrong with my work email and had to register from home.

@Ronson- I played a test match vs Wruff on the Gavrus map. 1st battle of 1st day as Allies. The A initial setup is terrible, with only a single road straight to the bridge and only one nearby VL. So you might want to maybe get with me on GR and I can show you how I did, replay the battle, or anything you decide. It will also let you see the strat moves Wruff made in the initial testing for both sides. That battle is like the 4th or 5th of the Op.

Talk to you soon. Happy to see you as our commander.

Best regards,
Greg
dgfred
GR# 2309990

[RD_Steiner]

Hi Ronson and dgfred....
Col.Ronson...as you probably know there is a new game file...the allies got a few new Bg's ....LMAO...perfect i say!! it may not make any diff to your initial orders??

PZT Sturm is on our side now..dont know him or where he's from...wruff says he's a good player........welcome aboard Sturm

i assume were going to do AAR's and post the game file ...i will set up a few more threads here for each specific thing.
moves will now have a thread ONLY for the posted moves. all strategy talk will be HERE. a game file thread for the game file ONLY and and AAR thread so we can tell what happened and why with screen shots....ask Wruff where you can get a screen shot program and we use media fire to post the game files....get that link from him too.

i will be a co commander of sorts for you Col.Ronson, ill help out when i can....with work and xmas right now my time is a bit thin till after dec 26 then i have lots of time. but for the most part bro ill leave the strat and orders to you you have a good grasp of the big picture / strat ....so your the man Bro

i would suggest as always... that we number are tanks and guns so we can keep track of what we have easier.......we will easily no if they are destroyed because the replacment will not be numbered.
aslo tell us in the AAR what you destroyed of the enemy......i will also try to keep track of there losses in each BG as well.....this all helps in the long run.

thats it for now.....look for the new specific threads please.....what do you think Col. Ronson??

thanks
Capt Steiner
PS.... are we not going to move a BG into Christot? until we find out where hes moving to??

[RD Ronson]

Hello to you dgfred:) glad you got here, I've added you as a friend at GR look forwards to seeing you very soon (time zones permitting! ).

The only purpose of our moving into Gavrus is to stop him from moving out. All that I intend us to do there is simply snach a bit of the neutral ground and then stick on our deploy, if he wants to try to kick us off he's more than welcome. Its basically a grab and hold tactic there, if we get squeezed we can pull out in the PM and return next morning. I don't want anyone to take the map, its just to keep him away from Villiers while we try to figure out his attacking strategy. As soon as I can connect with you on GR we can run though a few of these moves and look at the set ups.

Thx for setting up the threads Capt. Steiner:) a very good idea.
I picked up the new file now and will amend the orders to reflect this once I've had a good look at it.

I'll be glad to have you as co commander, as you say the Christmas period is one where we are all under a bit of work/shopping/family pressure and none of us can be sure when we are going to have the time needed to issue orders etc.

I look forward to Knights, Loki and Sturm joining us soon, then we can really start making plans and getting this operation underway, allowing a couple of days for all the guys to arrive is no skin off my nose, and I don't intend to kick off before half the team is on the field:).

Yes by all means number or identify in some way our tanks and guns, this will allow us as Capt. Steiner says to quickly identify losses without the need for opening up the entire file. Also try to estimate Enemy losses in our battles and causes, in this way we can see whats the best weapons to use against specific targets.

Moves,
Yes there are some BG that I didn't move on purpose, as until we can identify the main point of his attack I want to keep some back uncommitted in a central position, by going forwards into Rauray ( a loverly big map) and Tilley, Cristot should be fairly safe. I didn't move the 8/3 and 9/3 forwards, as they would have terrible deploys against superior forces.
I expect him to get those panthers into action as soon as he can in that sector. so expect a hard fight around that area.
The other unit I kept static is the unit in Pegusus Bridge. I want to know what he is going to do with that SS Panzer unit, will he come onto us or try to slip around us by turning West?.....this also explains why I want to secure that area below our Collombelles supply depot, by holding him in the Hill 112 Orne river with one BG and shifting the other West, until our reinforcements arrive.
If we can bottle up the South and West, then we can concentrate on the North.

Personally if I were in his place I would strike South with his panzer Bgs bringing the Panthers into action by day 2, supporting them on the flank with his Pz Gren Bgs. The South units would push up into Pegasus, and I'd simply hold in the West.......but lets see how he jumps in the first move:)


OK this post is long enough now, to recap.....

Capt Steiner is co commanders and will issue orders/ instructions as neccessary.

We await the rest of team to join us here.

I will look at the new file and issue 1st orders (we'll have a bit of time to discuss these while we await or team mates so any comments are welcome)

All move orders will be written ASAP....however they will not be acted on until they are headed by EXEC....this will give a bit of time for discussion. In this way I can write them while the last battles of the round are being played and amend them if needed, if we are going to be fighting 8-10 battles it will take time to get through a round and in this way orders can be written on the move so to speak, rather than having to sit down and do the whole lot at once.........
Just always look for the .....EXEC.....at the top

Cheers
Ronson

[dgfred1]

On the testing file Wruff had moved the SS Pz Unit into Pegasus. In our matchup at Gavrus I expanded enough for a very solid foothold. Made it to the river bridge but was stopped from getting to the extreme NW and NE. He had AT guns west and infantry east killing off my guys scouting those directions. I like your grab and hold theory.

[RD_Knights-X]

Just wanted to let Col Ronson that I have checked in. But, my availability is problematic. I'll be traveling from 12/25 until 1/4. So, if we get underway before Friday of this week, maybe I'll get some "dirt" from battle on my hands.

I have no comment on the proposed strategy at the moment. What has been described seems workable. I especially like the idea of not committing al BG resources until we have a better idea what Jerry intends to do. That is very wise.

[loki]

Hello all, not sure where i sign in at but i am letting you guys know i am ready!

[dgfred1]

Hey Ronson,
Regarding the Hill 112 Orne battle and the Thury VL- it is in our set-up area... at least it was in version 3 .

[dgfred1]

(cont)

But that was attacking with the 214/43Wessex. Your plans had it going to Vimont and the 227/15 moving into 112/Orne. Can you check on that? Also could the 130/43 go into Cristot instead of Caen, just thinking it over? That would back up the north rather than heading southward. The new file also show us getting some extra Air Support. The Germans stayed the same with 1 Air and 4 Mortar.

[RD_Steiner]

Hi Loki.......well you made it here and posted so...thats all good ...as long as you are registered and you must be to post i think... were laughing all the way to PZT War victory

as for hill 112...we should be able to get across the bridge into the town and hold there...its a meet but he has a PZ Grd BG which has more and maybe faster vehicles but he has farther to go. holding the bridge is key and if we lose the town then we destroy a H/t in the middle of the bridge and then he's screwed. we could hold that map till the War is over from our side no problem......ive done it in a past OP

were all signed in but for Herr Sturm......thanks knights for posting ...i didnt look here before i PM'd you from the RD site. i new u were going away but i couldnt remember exactly when ......too many rums the other nite...killed 90% of my few brain cells i have left.....

[RD_Steiner]

oh ya....dgfred.......pick up this PDF file on close combat tactics from the PZT site.....any one else too.....its Very good.....lots of CC fighting insite from the PZT lads, from there years of experience. http://pztccgruppe.createmybb2.com/showthread.php?tid=66

i have to admit its going to be a tough fight against some of these guys..Mik and Wruff in particular. dont know some of the other PZT lads, but put them in a panther and its gonna be hard to stop them...thank god they can only field 4 cats but the german inf is better than our boys too except maybe the canuck BG's were gonna give them a run for there money though!

Shermans Forward!! [ Panzers March in canuck! ]

[RD_Knights-X]

Welcome Loki! We haven't been on the same side for quite some time... In case you don't recognize the screen name...think back to the Platoon Clan days. Do you remember Platoon Knight? Yep...one in the same! Anyway, good to see still loving CC.

[dgfred1]

Hi Loki.......well you made it here and posted so...thats all good ...as long as you are registered and you must be to post i think... were laughing all the way to PZT War victory

as for hill 112...we should be able to get across the bridge into the town and hold there...its a meet but he has a PZ Grd BG which has more and maybe faster vehicles but he has farther to go. holding the bridge is key and if we lose the town then we destroy a H/t in the middle of the bridge and then he's screwed. we could hold that map till the War is over from our side no problem......ive done it in a past OP

were all signed in but for Herr Sturm......thanks knights for posting ...i didnt look here before i PM'd you from the RD site. i new u were going away but i couldnt remember exactly when ......too many rums the other nite...killed 90% of my few brain cells i have left.....

Hey Steiner,
I believe Sturm is the only one not signed in here.

I had a practice game with Sturm on the 112/Orne map. By the way... he will be an excellent player for our team and played aggressively (good for meeting battles )
I was Allies. I had trouble getting units over the bridge together and of course my tanks went their own merry way... but our setup was on the Thury VL and I captured the town and westward VLs. A better player: aka- Ronson, Steiner, Knights, Loki or Sturm will easily be able to secure the town and both north/south banks of the river. Sturm slammed into me before I could get my bearings and I kept running men into withering support fire from his TDs and HTs. He was able to break into the northern edge of town and I did not secure the northern or all of the southern river bank that was available.
Still I believe a good player would be able to hold and expand the territory I was able to get. In my opinion that map will not be any problem for our team.

I also had a practice game with Wruff on the Gavrus map, which I mention earlier. We should be able to implement Ronson's plan of grab and hold there. I believe Wruff played as he would play in a team war.

Last night we had another practice game at Pegesus, and although Wruff didn't want to give away any tactical plans and basically charged all his guys at me... we shouldn't have too difficult a task holding them off there.

So, just a little information to hopefully help you guys in your planning and strategy.
Judging from my recent play in h2h... I probably should mostly be assigned defensive maps/battles as I am not familiar enough with most maps to try meeting engagements or attacking against top-notch players. But as always... I will try my best no matter the assignment.

[RD Ronson]

Welcome Loki and KnightsX, I saw Sturm on GR last night and gave him the link so he should show up anytime soon:), so gang is almost all here!

In answer to dgfreds question:-
But that was attacking with the 214/43Wessex. Your plans had it going to Vimont and the 227/15 moving into 112/Orne. Can you check on that? Also could the 130/43 go into Cristot instead of Caen, just thinking it over? That would back up the north rather than heading southward.

My reasoning for these moves is to get some troops south as we have a large open area there which if his SS Pz BG moves WEST instead of attacking Pegusus could let him get into our supply at Collombelles before we can cover it. So the 227/15 will have to take both exit VLs in Hill112 Orne and hold them for a couple of moves, until we can figure out just where those SS pzs are going. Once we can see the enemy strategy we can get troops back into Bourgebus and seal it off.
I have amended orders to move the 44/15 forwards into Abbaye as in latest file it had shifted backwards.

I'll transfer the orders over to the Orders thread too, and if there are no other comments we'll EXEC them midnight GMT, which will give time for all to see and comment.
I'll try to stick to that time in future too as I realise that most of you are some hours behind me and its easy for me to write in my morning and EXEC in the evening before half of you have even had a chance to comment, Does that sound reasonable to you all?

Cheers
Ronson

[dgfred1]

But Ronson,
Can the 214/43 Wessex even move into Vimont? Shouldn't the 227/15 be the one moving to Vimont?

[RD Ronson]

Thx dgfred,

You're correct going in with 214/43Wessex is a far better move as it WILL cover both exit VLs. Orders will be ammended accordingly.
46/15 Scots will now move to CAGNY from Bourguebus instead.
We should be able to seal the West and South with a bit of luck, leaving us just with the problem of the Northern attack to contend with.

Cheers
Ronson

[dgfred1]

Well good, I did contribute a little something

[RD_Steiner]

your strat and moves make sense to me colonel.

i sent Sturm the info too in a PZT PM...so i dont know what taking him so long to get here. tell wruff to kick him in the ass if you see him in GR. im working nite shift tonite.

remember men what Ronson has said.......any moves we make onto a map is a spoiling move. we dont want to be hero's. we just need to expand a wee bit on our deploy or hold our deploy. no use losing men and equipment to gain ground we dont need.
we need to make them fight for every inch of gound they take and counter attack if we see opportunitys retake ground or Vl's.
in order for them to make progress they have to move off maps that usually leave them cut off untill there next BG can mop us up. our job is to keep them cut off so we can fight them when they have no supply. thats why the cat BG's are behind there 1st line of offensive BG's.

for the record wruff said the german south and left BG's are just holding BG's per say....the main offensive will come from the north ....as we already no.....but have you all looked ahead on the german side to see there re and re shedule?
the PZ BG that moves into pegasus is the toughest BG in that area and the 21 PZ Grd BG on the left is the toughest one there too....the rest of the german BG's that come in on the south and left are fairly weak inf BG's for the most part, so im not expecting too much going on in those areas....he will want to tie us down as much as he can there tho. and as ronson says we do want to know what that MK PZ BG will do at pegasus.

for the record again.. i dont really agree with gdfred on he pegasus battle. that map is a bit of bear becuase of the lack of cover and set up defensive positons on the left it posses challenges to both sides.......but dont let wruff fool you...he was play testing YOU and attacks...he knows your on our side dgfred and he knows he might be fighting you there, so he threw everything at you to see what would happen that doesnt mean thats how he will actually attack.
remember the german inf is better then the allied both offensivly and defencivly....he may not use many or any tanks on that map for the 1st fight expecting us to use 3 or 4 6pdrs to counter his tanks in the open areas......thus he gains an advantage per say.
we have to set up with both options in mind because we cant afford to get caught with our allied coveralls down.. no matter what force mix he uses. i recommend 2 mortor teams for the commander who plays that map and set them up resonably close to the front lines to pound his inf as they move over open ground.

ANOTHER THING.....WRUFF IS THE MASTER OF THE LAST MINUTE DASH TO A VL AND A SNEAK UP THE SIDE OF THE MAP. trust me..i have been caught on this too many damn times.....especially the sneak up the sides of the map.

also....the battle at tailliville...we hold the map and have very good defensive positon there with bunkers that hold 6 pdrs plus a naval barrage. the german comes on, on the top right of the map in a bit of a bad spot as far as fighting his way out. he has open fields on the his left and hedges and a road on his center and left.
i would expect him NOT to use many tanks here again on the 1st move. he has to expand his deploy to get better position for move 2 and thats best down with inf IMO.
i suggest again 2 mortor teams or even 3 and maybe a sniper with a good field of fire into the fields. dont let him get across the open fields with his inf and try to retake that hedgeline there too IMO
everyone should LOOK at this Map and the deploy before the game starts. this is the area the offensive is coming from.

dgfred......laod the scenario in the game editer and look at the german and allied reinforcment schedule, and the BG makeups. also did you get a screen saver program? and do u know how to save and post the game file with mediafire?? if not as i posted before get Wruff to set you up with those programs ASAP.

[RD Ronson]

OK Gentlemen....

The orders are now EXEC status lets get started,

Good Luck to you all.....may fortune favour you

A pleasure to have your company on our adventure:)

Cheers
Ronson

[dgfred1]

Hey Steiner,
Yes, I have studied the reinforcement schedule for both sides and the BGs.
In fact it is one of my favorite parts of playing.

I have seen Wruff's sideline attack and effective panzer use before. In reading, in pictures and in h2h games.

I don't really plan to play too many battles (especially at first) as I am basically a newcomer to CC5 h2h. Maybe I will only step in if needed to keep the War going.
Although I am a veteran of CC2 h2h for many years... it is quite different than CC5 with the large maps and units I am not 100% familiar with against seasoned players.
I have fought in several tourneys and rank above 1000 on the CC2 TH ladder still.
If I do decide to play a battle in our war, I will do my best and hopefully nobody will be disappointed. If anyone is, I will gracefully step out of playing and stick to strategy only.
It is really not that big a deal to me, honestly. I would rather the better players win for our team anyway. I am fine with strategy only. I promise.

As far as the Pegasus battle with Wruff goes, I stated that Wruff was not going to play his 'normal' game because of giving away strategy/etc at a battle we might be playing later. I told him the same thing stated above and that I only wanted to practice... and I didn't expect him to give anything away. Hell, he almost decided not to before we started.

I took 2 M10 TDs, 1 Sherman, 1 Wasp, 1 6lb, and 1 17lb for support. No mortars because I expected a crazed charged just for fun from Wruff, and I wanted tough support and extra infantry. I also took a Vickers.
He told me before we started where exactly his units were coming from and not to worry about the south VL because it led to nowhere- because I asked (I wasn't sure). I tried some different things too like an ambush by the Wasp, 1 M10 and 2 infantry units in the woods close to the middle vl in the hedges. I also tried the 6lb in the bunker thing near the bridge and the house (bad idea by the way). I put the other M10 on the road protecting the northern VL between the houses just in case he busted thru to the bridge.
I put the 17lb on the north bank in the trees to the west. I put the Sherman nestled next to the house's west side with a Bren facing backward in it.
He charged immediately for the house and the middle vl. The Sherman and a Bren fought off the house charge with help from infantry in trenches/houses/etc. The Wasp and M10 slaughtered two infantry teams and killed a tank charging the middle vl. Another tank, and a HT with more infantry support again tried the middle vl. Once again the same thing happened this time with a HT added to German losses. The Wasp was king of the middle vl.
He tried a couple more probes with another HT and firing two AT guns I hadn't seen. But that was it.
Like I said they may not even attack there, and if I were to play the exact same battle vs Wruff in the actual war- he would most likely knock me for a loop. I don't expect we will play vs each other much anyway... as he knows everything about my playing abilities and knows this is my 1st War and basically I am a newcomer to CC5 h2h.

Regarding the screen pics and saving the file to mediafire... I know nothing.
Wruff has told me how to take screen shots, but I don't really remember what he said and have never done it before. I always write some stuff down and remember the rest to post AARs in writing. But no screen shots I do have a very good memory tho.

I will make sure I know how to save the file if I am going to play tho. Don't worry.

[RD Ronson]

HI dgfred,

Thats a fine description of a battle , easy to understand and full of useful information, pics are nice to see too, but with a map in front of me I can visualise it just fine.

Hopefully I'll get to meet up with you on GR over the holidays and we can go off and sort out the file saving hosting business, which is fairly easy and also the screen shot procedure which is a little bit harder. I'll be happy to point you to the progammes I use and how I use them...I remember when I first started doing it, it seemed complex but believe me after you have done it a few times it does become easier.

With the file saving, which is the most important to start with, pick the mediafire at:-
Mediafire.com
I saved this to my fav bar so its always easy to find.

I found it best when I first started to 'practice' uploading and downloading my own save files from games just to get the hang of it.
I did it this way...Open the media file screen & click on begin upload, it will ask you what file to upload, you pick this from your SSI/CC Invasion Normandy/Games/save,
simply click on the save game you wish to upload and it will appear in the media file window....then go to bottom right of screen and click 'Begin upload' it will show progess and when finished show you the 'upload completed' screen with the file name, file size, share , and copy link........The copy link is what you need here, you click it and it will save so that you can copy it ......Do this in MS word that will show you the address of 'your' uploaded file, then you may copy this to webpage to 'open' your file and download it...when download is completed.....move the file back into your saved games folder.

In this way its easy to pass on the save game file to other people, you simply 'copy' the upload link into the saved game thread.

When we get together we'll run through it together until you are satisfied. This is the important bit of multiplayer gaming ...the screen shots are nice but thats more like the icing on the cake, lets make sure of file up and downloading first then I'll be happy to show you the screenshot business.

Once a few files start to be hosted here, have a go at the downloading yourself. It sounds more complicated than it is.....I promise:)

I would like you to take a full part in this operation and to enjoy yourself, sure its nice to win, and we'll all be trying for that result, but its also great fun to play as part of a team too, and at the end of the day we're all here to relax and have fun:)

Cheers
Ronson

[RD Ronson]

OK just found a major problem....I just tried to post a link to mediafire in the above post and the forum doesn't accept links before you have been a member here for 7 days!

Can some of you guys try to see if you can post a link?

We may have to delay the start if its not possible

Cheers
Ronson

[RD_Steiner]

Hi dgfred
like commander ronson said......i too would like you to play. this is a FUN war with no clan honor at stake....win or lose it doesnt matter ...we just want to play and have some fun.
you seem to be on top of most of the stuff here and youve looked into the OP, so i would like you to play. its all a learning curve.
we all need to see how this op plays because we may be playing it again later with swapped sides and it may turn out to be a clan war....who knows... but its all experience and you cant get the experience unless you play.
trust me....no one is going to get pissed ..if you get beat up on a map
i have been beat up and screwed up too many times to count ..shit happens on the battle field....bad and good luck.....so dont sweat it my friend....join us

like ronson says the file saving is easy, once you do it a couple of times....we'll walk u thru it........or the opposing player will walk you thru it.......just ask him on GR before you start.......none of us are going to say no.....its real easy.

the AAR's can be written with no screen shots....no big deal ......ronson what sreeen shot program do you use and where do we get it from???
im using UOSO screen shot..........dont have the link at the moment.......google it...

Colonel Ronson....did you see Wruff's post about posting our game file at PZT until this site lets us post here.....

hope sturm gets registered here soon.....wruff's going to kick him out of the game if he doesnt show up pretty quik......then were really going to need you any ways dgfred, and knights is leaving for a week over xmas, so were going to be pretty damn thin
so again..the more the merrier

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