Re: Close Combat GJS War Strategy Discussion

[RD Ronson]

IMO we need to get a h/t destroyed on the hill 112 bridge...... your thoughts Col. Ronson?
Capt. RD Steiner

I didn't ignore this request but unfortunately we don't have any halftracks in the Hill 112 BG (214/43) and armoured cars are pretty thin on the ground too...as well as everything else in our BGs! what a surprise lucky we're not fighting this on line settings, I reckon all we would have is Brown Bess muskets.

I see from the moves that the Germans have remained static in HILLMAN so a chance to inflict some damage on them.
Also the 9/3 Canadiansd are attacking the static Panthers, here don't bother using any Vehicles we're going to get kicked so just use PIATs in the rather vain hope we get a panther to come close enough and infantry, keep the engineers and any good troops back we can use them once they reform on day 5 to far better effect I'm sure.
Otherwise battles are pretty much as expected, his attacked into BRETTVILLE from the north so let him come in a bit he has plenty of his ressurection Pz Grens here thanks to previous crashes, but is starting to get low on Stugs.
Hill 112 is pure defence again.
BAVENT we should retake the chateau, and we should see if we can eliminate some more of his panzers and infantry at PEGUSUS, don't worry too much here as next move we will push the 22/7 back in, just give him losses

Good Luck all
Cheers
Ronson
PS I'll try to get on and take the CRISTOT battle myself, as its such a dead loss.

[RD_Steiner]

can we even set up on the north side of the bridge now at Hill 112 ??? i dont think so...can someone confirm this please....

[dgfred1]

I think the last battle there might have been a crash. IIRC X said he was allowed to set up on the north side. I asked Kevin yesterday about that very thing... he said he thought we could. We have 2 Tanks and some other stuff that could block the bridge as last resort.

[loki]

yes we can set up across the river, last time i played here it crashed but i was established across the river, in the remake it did not save quite like we planned. So Wruff said we could set up over there after the remake.

[dgfred1]

I may be able to fight the next battle at Bavent if nobody else can possibly Wed or Thurs night. I am a bit worried about messing up the save file transfer and after looking at the forces see no chance for me to push the Germans back much at all (especially against Wruff or kevin as that seems to be the other 'team'). In fact with the expected sneaking
and veteran play... they might push ME back. I am also not too familiar with the map in regards to hidden bunkers and LOS (as Steiner can attest too ). I am fairly confident that if the Germans do attack... I can hold my own. maybefairlyconfident .

Can you guys offer some advice on strategy for this battle in the meantime, or somebody else jump in and play it? That would be much less stressful for me... Wruff and kevin are like buzzards circling over a meat-wagon every time I get on gameranger.

I would like to just be 'Aide to Camp' for my first-time Team War anyway... that is VERY enjoyable to me so far and a terrific h2h GJS learning experience.

[dgfred1]

Excellent fighting Knights! Thanks for taking the reigns.

[RD Ronson]

I may be able to fight the next battle at Bavent if nobody else can possibly Wed or Thurs night. I am a bit worried about messing up the save file transfer and after looking at the forces see no chance for me to push the Germans back much at all (especially against Wruff or kevin as that seems to be the other 'team'). In fact with the expected sneaking
and veteran play... they might push ME back. I am also not too familiar with the map in regards to hidden bunkers and LOS (as Steiner can attest too ). I am fairly confident that if the Germans do attack... I can hold my own. maybefairlyconfident .

Can you guys offer some advice on strategy for this battle in the meantime, or somebody else jump in and play it? That would be much less stressful for me... Wruff and kevin are like buzzards circling over a meat-wagon every time I get on gameranger.

I would like to just be 'Aide to Camp' for my first-time Team War anyway... that is VERY enjoyable to me so far and a terrific h2h GJS learning experience.

Its no problem to me or any other member of THIS team how much you wish to take part my friend........if you're having fun just shouting from the sidelines then by all means continue.....nobody should EVER feel obliged to play in any team that I captain, just so long as you have fun .
Its quite obvious to me, and has been for some time, that this is very much an uphill struggle, so should you wish to play a few games please feel free. Don't feel pressurised into playing by either of the other team, take it from me if the run of play was going the other way they wouldn't be so keen

Back to the main point , we have now reached the time to consider our moves for the PM turn of day 4, you have all done extremely well to reach this point and still hold an allied minor victory.

1) Things to consider this turn do we abandon VILLIERS or fight another round?

2) Do we switch BGs at HILL112 to get a better deploy as he now starts halfway across the bridge?

3) Will we do another switch at PEGUSUS and push the 22/7 back in?

I'll put some orders up later with my views, let me know what you think before I EXEC them.

Cheers
Ronson

[loki]

Their are several reasons why I have been less active in this OP. For one all the crashes have really been a negative factor. It rarely has been a negative factor for them and almost always negative factor for us. Another reason I have gotten the run around by wruff and kevin when I have been lined up for games with them. From that point on I no longer made this my priority I will play my personel GC's over this one, if I am on and nobody is around I will play with them.

One thing that really bothered me is Hill112 before Ronson played it this round i played Wruff and it crashed. He did something in the replay that imo was cheap. I had my men on the bridgehead and heading to the right of the bridge. (I have a screenshot of it) I told Wruff I had a screenshot of it as well, his response to me was "I seen where you were." So I had cleaned out his men along the river on the right side of the bridge. However in the replay as I was running my men to the same position he put a squad right on the bank of the river right where i had secured when we were playing. Very Cheap IMO very cheap.

As Ronson explained to me Kevin Told him he could not deploy on the right side of the river, This is total BS! My Group leader was running up the river and Wruff had nothing to stop him with about 20 seconds to go.

I joined up for fun but it's become more of a hassle than fun.

click for my position

[RD_Knights-X]

I see nothing wrong with Col Ronson's battle plan for the afternoon of the 19th.

Loki.....I feel your frustration about the game crashes...and the way we have elected to resolve them. I can only suggest that we try to take screen shots every so often...and especially close to the end of the game...so that if it crashes at 0:00, we have a screen shot to back our territory claim. This is far from an ideal settlement methodology.

Personally, I liked the 'get two different players to replay the map' method. However, since the Pzt team is so shy of alternate players, this could be problematic.

In closing Loki, let me try to convince you to stick with the Team and be an active player. Hardly ever in RL or game playing is there an ideal solution to problems that arise. Since I would be considered 'older than dirt' amongst my fellow team mates , I think I can pass along this bit of wisdom with some certainty . Please hang in there!

[RD_Steiner]

Loki
i would have called wruff on that one [ and i have in the past ] i would have aborted the game if i had to,..... to get the proper replay and deploy.

also im with knights [ the old voice of reason ] hang in there and play a few more.

dgfred
as ronson says....play if you want....or yell from the side lines but IMO i think you should play..its all for fun.

ronson
i wondered why you didnt deploy on the north side of the bridge......the last i heard was we could deploy on the north side.

yes we are on the down hill slide of this OP.....we get a couple of good BG's on the 20th but its still a tough go...the cats are soooo tough.

im hoping to get some games in this fri and sat......and perhaps some other games with some of you guys??

orders look good to me men.

[loki]

Oh I won't quit I enjoy being on your team, I just don't care for how the opposing side reacts in certain scenarios. I have been lined up with games with both kevin and Wruff and they have given me the run around...

Oh (wruff) yes we can play the next two battles, I need a 10 min break though. I said sure only to be put off another 20 minutes to ulitimately be told he has an inmportant phone call coming. Then just tell me that 30 minutes a go.

Then kevin on one saturday acts like he can only play Legione. I was up for the next game although kevin asked Legione which is fine,except Legione told Ronson he would prefer not to play because of his recent disgust with his crash with Wruff. So Legione ended up playing kevin, and did an excellent job! as usuall Kevin told me he prefered to play Legione because he will only see him on weekends blah blah blah!

Then you throw in the crashes. = no fun! The one thing I said earlier, I will not make this my priority my other friends and games will come first. If I see them and I have time and nobody else is around I will play.

I do very much like being on your guys team I think you guys have the right approach to the team ops.

[RD Ronson]

ronson
i wondered why you didnt deploy on the north side of the bridge......the last i heard was we could deploy on the north side.

I was told in no uncertain terms by Kevin that I couldn't deploy north of the bridge .....I did consider asking him if he would like to set up my troops and fight it for me as he seemed far more interested in my set up than his own!

Unfortunately some players see this as something more than a game to be played for fun, but then I guess it takes allsorts to make the world go round.....I'll admit its frustrating at times, and I do get annoyed when I see my tanks go up in smoke unexpectedly, however within a few minutes I can have a laugh with the opponent about the turns of fate in this great game of ours.

Glad you're all happy with the moves, I'll switch them over to EXEC status now and we can see if we can futher frustrate them .

Its great fighting alongside a team with such comraderie, I'd sooner be on this side than the other that I know for sure

One thing we did forget to set up is a score sheet to see who gets the most tank kills, just for fun, it can be a bit of a laugh in these types of ops.

Good luck gentlemen for the PM turn we'll hold the bridges if nothing else!

Cheers
Ronson

[loki]

I talked with kevin this evening about hill 112 and why we could not deploy across the bridge. He said that he never said that we could not setup across the bridge he also said ronson and him discussed it. :/ I talked with ronson earlier in the evening and I trust what he said. So I guess I got off my chest anyways.

He sort of tried acting at first like it was no big deal, he said "would it have really mattered we would have just swept either north or south of the bridge I cant remember at this point and we would have had the same ground. I said "lol swept? you guys could barely take the town with elite infantry. He said "true" "It's been a hard battle"


I have our conversation on photo I also made note to him about wruff putting men along the river bank in the replay where my Command team was and thought it was cheap. I am sure this will get back to there high command!

[RD_Steiner]

Gentlemen.....
the latest from wruff on the panzer forum in response to Knights query about some lack of PZT players this week when knights was trolling for some panzer kills.

quote " I understand that there's been quite a bit of grumbling in the allied forums concerning the strength of the allied forces in this op, leading to a marked drop-off in interest and lack of participation.

You know I'm always up for a battle KnightsX, and we've had some doozies in this war, you and I. But if there's such little overall interest from the allies in continuing this campaign then I suggest that we call this op done. We've all got other things to move on to and these things are best not left open ended. Let's conclude things here so that we can all move on in good conscience.

I'd like to hear from Steiner or Ronson so that we can end this thing mutually and officially call it a day.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so men....what shall it be??? sound off on what we would like to do........

i would like to apologize again for my lack of participation in this OP.....ive just been too damn busy with RL alot of the time to get into this OP like i thought i would i hope i didnt let you guys down.

oh and for the record....IMO...yes there has been SOME grumbling about the allied strength in these forums but i figured that the allies had to hold ground and slow the germans down against a superior attacking force........so the allies were going to be under strenght to a point. i did my share of grumbling too but i dont think there has been quite a bit of grumbling what do you all think? has someone been telling tales out of school??

[RD Ronson]

Thx for keeping us informed Capt. Steiner,

Certainly some interesting points raised there........a drop off of interest in the allied side? coming from the leader of a team of 2 this is a bit rich to say the least .......So its all the other guys fault is it!...priceless

Yes I guess though he does have a point, although had we indeed been fighting a team, interest could well have stood fast, and yes there has been some complaints...mostly about the numerous crashes suffered during this operation which have cost us ground while preserving the enemy infantry strenght........

As to BG composition, maybe somebody would like to explain to me how at least 2 of the Allied Bgs at RECRUIT level had only 2 ATG in them ....

However all that aside, I hope that we on this side at least have had some fun over the past few weeks, its sure been a bit of a laugh at times

Personally I don't mind if we call it a day or carry on, like all things on the 'Heroes' side the decision, like the sucess or failure of every battle, is a team one. I'm quite happy to go on writing the moves for as long as you wish me to, and even continuing to play Kevin....however due to the lack of stability of this 'well tested' op maybe the time has come to put it to bed.

Finally Capt. Steiner theres absolutely no call to apologise for anything, from you or indeed any other member of the team who have all played this operation in a fine example of comradeship and respectful co-operation.
Nobody .....repeat Nobody here has let anyone down, its been a pleaure to share this with you all.

Cheers
Ronson

[dgfred1]

How can a TWO player team say the other team is complaining about something?

Yeah, I have a complaint... there are only 2 players on your TEAM.

[loki]

Well I don't care what happens the crashes have certainly been bad for us. I personally did not tell anyone on their side my feelings on this Op. Had I, I would have been banned from it by Wruff I did tell kevin my feelings on the scenario with the deployment on the bridge with Ronson, where he stated that Ronson could not deploy across the river. I also told him I thought Wruff's little sneaky trick of putting a squad where I had taken land on the replay on the river bank was CHEAP!

My opinions on this Op are not good though, I think it's horrible. Then Wruffs attitude when the first crash happened with Ronson left a bad taste in my mouth along with his cheap deployment at "The Hill" in the remake with me. Then the obvious run around with Wruff and kevin a few times has made it unenjoyable, which i have stated.

I also have met two new players in Steiner and XLegione which is always good. I have known Knights and Ronson for some years now. DGFred I have never had the honor to play or chat with you online, I don't mean to exclude you from the others, I am sure you are a capable player and a good guy!

I never played GJS much in the past i never enjoyed it so learning some of the BG strengths has been new to me, I always played SAS, Muese and Stalingrad. I also don't like point systems I have never used them before so it was quite a different experience. Even in Stalingrad and Muese which is horribly unbalanced as it should be, You are still capable of hurting your opponent.

In the end I would like to say I think you all have been gentlemen and I enjoyed being part of your team, sorry for any misunderstanding's I had at the beginning, I truly am!

signing off Kevin Farris AKA Loki

[RD_Knights-X]

Hmm, I guess I should jump in with...something....at this point. Right!?

Col Steiner seems to want our opinions on the subject of....continue, or 'pull the plug.' Well, I suppose my post in the Pzt Forum indicated my willingness to press on with the Op. Although, it looks like there isn't much enthusiasm for it at this point. Since it was meant to be a team effort, then we should either move forward or stop as a team. How's that for an answer...clear as mud!

I was thiniking this evening about hailing Wruff to get another couple of maps in for the Op. But, until we decide as a Team to press on...or not....I'll 'keep my powder dry' with him.

Vote: Considering the unstable game platform, let's pull the plug on the Op. Arrrg, this means I don't get to spring my AT gun ambushes on those pessgy Panther pussycats in Carp. Woo is me!

[RD_Steiner]

ok....so we have to hear from Xlegion and dgfred......
dgfred......you have a say in this too...as i think you were thinking about jumping in near the end of this war???

i think next time we should insist on inf casualties as well if the game crashes.

another thing ....i told Loki on MSN tonite that i would keep this forum open to all the players that are signed in here...so we can keep in touch and we can post other stuff here too. also we can use it again when we start another War if we need a forum to post like we did this time

like Loki said...i really like all the players we had on the allied side in this war.......its been great playing with you all.......your all honorable men in my books

[dgfred1]

Whatever you guys decide is fine with me. I was ready to play if needed although I would have liked to play someone besides kevin. You guys fought gallantly! Nice!

As usual Ronson was his excellent self, X is a beast, loki was nasty, Knights and Steiner are warriors. I would fight with you guys ANYTIME. Hail the Heros!

[RD_Steiner]

well wruff just posted again and pretty much stopped the OP any ways. i talked to him on GR and he''s going to tweak the OP......perhaps take out the panther BG. i told him we were getting killed on the crashes and the german inf not being taken as losse's too.

i will post tonite or tommoroow on PZT forum if you all like and tell them we enjoyed playing and the comradeship.
we should all drop a note there and say thanks i think. i know we had some issues but its all good in the end and wruff does alot to keep CC and our community going IMHO.

and as i said above...ill keep this forum open to us all here.. so drop a thread or note or a PM here if you want to get in touch with someone and also lets all hook up and play CC !!!! im usually around regularly for games Bro's!!

i have enjoyed playing with all of you... your all great CC players...as dgfred said you all did fight gallantly! ....a special thanks to Col. Ronson for talking the command positon and writing our orders etc.....and i hope we can all get on the same side again, in future CC wars....we work well together!!! HAIL THE HERO"S LOL
PANZERS MARCH MEN!!

[loki]

Hello all.

I want to thank Steiner for creating this website for us, nicely done. I also would like to put my vote in for Ronson as MVP. He Commanded us very well in my opion, he also had several very good battles his best being the battle of Rauray. Where Ronson routes his opponent so badly he quits the game and is kicked out the OP.
Way to lead man, way to lead!

At Rauray I think them getting over on us in the replay really hurt us. That would have been a nice shot to the nose if the game saved!

I think everyone else also played outstanding.

Thanks to all.

[RD Ronson]

To all the 'Heros'
Thank you all for your kind comments and for being such a fine team to command, its rare that a CC War goes on for so long with the whole side taking part, but we have stood together from day 1 until the end...believe me thats no mean feat, these things usually end with 'teams' of 2 or 3 people actually still in action.

I hope the orders were understandable...thx to all who proof read them, when one is flicking between screens while writing them its easy to make a slip up, as I did a couple of times. I always like to let everyone have a chance of seeing them before actual issue as I think it draws a team together and contributes to the fun. Especially when time zones make it hard to chat with everyone regularly.

Unfortunately crashes are as much a 'feature' of CCV as tanks are the solution that was applied, and which we agreed to, just didn't produce the desired result, maybe this needs to be reconsidered?
I've given this some thought myself over the past weeks and would like to put this before you for your comments:-

Crashes during the AM turn would be dealt with in the traditional way, loss of equipment and ground given to the attacker (or defender). This is the generally accepted way of dealing with things as you know. However:-
Crashes during the PM turn would simply be dealt with by trucing at the START of the battle and passing on to the next battle.
This would share any advantage gained fairly between attacking and defending sides equally. It is also easy to remember.

I did consider suggesting this to the opponents, but when a persons idea of discussion is limited to a the letters BS, then I tend to rapidly lose interest in bothering to speak to them.

The alternative is to play the newer games where crashes are few and far between, hopefully in the near future some mods will be out for these games that can be adapted for multi-player operations.

Good idea to post on the Pzt site once Capt. Steiner has done so ...I certainly will, just to say thank you for taking part.

Glad we intend to keep this forum going as it will be nice to keep in touch for sure, I know theres other CCsites/forums going, but you're all a good crowd of people and maybe we could use this to post ideas and discuss them or even opinions on CC games /mods..possible even tactics we use or ones we come up against, I guess it depends on however we want to use it.

Finally .............Thank you all for being such a GREAT team! its been a real pleasure and privilage to command over the past few weeks

Look forwards to seeing you all in GR and to the pleasure of playing you.

Cheers
Ronson

[RD_Steiner]

thanks Col. Ronson
i like your idea for crashes....we'll have to keep it in mind for next time for sure bro.

keep an eye on the RD forum Ronson, there is a RD internal war brewing i think.....Gen Jacks Vetbob WAR mod i believe........or a LSA OP that Helmut has put together.....

i posted a thanks for the WAR at the PZT forum, and ive talked to wruff about some changes to that op that might make it better, for a future fight. perhaps we change sides......

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