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Close Combat GJS War Strategy Discussion

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RD Ronson
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Post  dgfred1 Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:08 am

Hey Ronson,
What happened at Gavrus? Any AAR to look over?

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Post  RD Ronson Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:09 pm

Bit of a non event at Gavrus,,,,AAR should be here now..

I started writing move 1 PM moves have a look and see what you think.

The big question is can we possibly survive in TILLY? even if its just with one of the exit VLs in our hands? This is the one sticking point, if its possible we can buy time.

We are sticking in Lingevres as his reinforcement is due there on day2, this should throw that onto another of his empty depots.

All actions in Day 1 am fought very well, I'm sure we wil hold RAURAY this turn, and our troops will now be able to fight an encounter down South in Bavant on day 2 morning.
PEGUSUS held well too, no problems there.......
What can I say about Hill 112?...Excellent!.....Air support will go there this turn we should be able to hold the town as well as the bridge.

Cheers
Ronson


Last edited by RD Ronson on Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : updated)

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Post  RD_Steiner Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:41 pm

i think we should back out of tilly IMHO. if we lose the Juvigney VL were screwed IMO and he could easily over run it at the last min. if we lose the christot VL were no worse off its a meet in christot any ways with the 8/3 Br.

im a defender at heart and i would rather move back and defend and let him move in.
were gonna be fightng for our lives up there in that corner any ways........

your the boss tho Colonel Ronson.....we'll do as you think best!

whats the point loss and victory if we lose all those maps up in that corner???

hope to see you playing a few dgfred Very Happy

why cant X post here anyone know??

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Post  dgfred1 Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:52 pm

dgfred1 wrote:http://www.closecombatseries.net/Hosted/GJS/

Found this link to the values of the maps in GJS. Helps in determining victory.

Hey Steiner and Ronson,
Here is the link with the point values. I can't figure out which maps you are speaking of, or if you mean ALL the maps in the northwest corner. Hope this helps.

Nice fighting guys.

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Post  dgfred1 Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:15 pm

Don't worry about me playing, I will. I can only play in the evenings (eastern time zone) and some weekends. Like you... I am a defender at heart. These upcoming battles are more to my liking anyway. I enjoy the strategy and planning most of all. Cool

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Post  Pzt_Xlegione Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:07 pm


Mates, I don't want to comment the orders because I know the german plan.
Since the second day I will give you my point of view.

I think you can understand my position.

Many thanks

Pzt_Xlegione


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Post  RD Ronson Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:13 pm

[quote="RD_Steiner"]i think we should back out of tilly IMHO. if we lose the Juvigney VL were screwed IMO and he could easily over run it at the last min. if we lose the christot VL were no worse off its a meet in christot any ways with the 8/3 Br.

im a defender at heart and i would rather move back and defend and let him move in.
were gonna be fightng for our lives up there in that corner any ways........

quote]

Ok thanks for your opinion, you fought the map last so you're the guy with the better view, we'll pull back to Juvigny, I can see how close they are to both those VLs and it would be a disaster if we lost that BG at this early stage.

Orders for Day 1 afternoon turn are now EXEC and can be acted upon:)

Cheers
Ronson

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Post  dgfred1 Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:59 pm

Who ever fights at Lingevres, don't forget about the 10 bunkers... 5 on each side of the River.

Are any of the bunkers at Hill 112 South (that's Orne right?) under our control. Just wondering because I'm not sure where those are exactly except the big one.

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Post  RD_Steiner Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:13 am

dgfred.....im talking about ALL the maps in the north west area we hold now.....all in the area we can get cut off in. what happens to the points if we lose them all??

jump in dgfred and rack up some PZ kills Cool

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Post  dgfred1 Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:26 am

I will jump in tonight or this weekend. I will also try to figure out the victory points thing today.

I think the south is just totally a diversion. The Germans so far have done literally nothing at Pegasus... they didn't even name any of their units.

Should we attack with 9 Bge/3rd Brits from Hermanville into Thaon with one of our spoiling attacks... or stay purely defensive at Hermanville?


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Post  RD Ronson Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:17 pm

Orders for Day 2 move 1 are up now, I have discussed this with XLegione in GR and await your comments.

Attacking into Thoan at this stage is not envisaged, have a look at the deploy we would get, its one of the worse to face J Panzers and Shrecks . Crying or Very sad

Cheers
Ronson

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Post  RD_Steiner Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:15 pm

looks good Colonel Ronson Smile

i agree...theres no reason for us to move into Thoan or cruelly. very bad deploys for us on both those maps. time is on our side not theres Cool

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Post  RD_Steiner Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:42 pm

looks like X did some good fighting at Lingreves ....where the german deploy was at the descreasion of the PC i see....that could have been better for us.....at least it wasnt worse.
you will all notice that all of our BG's in the north west corner are now on HALF SUPPLY....half fuel and ammo. ROTATE YOUR ARMOUR OUT FOR EACH BATTLE NOW.
things are going to get nasty now......the cats are coming.
perhaps he's going to move the cats north west thru all those maps there and bring them around behind us?

X did some good fighting at Rauray too Smile can you name your tanks and guns please X Cool
looking forward to the AAR with equipment losses for both sides Cool

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Post  RD Ronson Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:52 pm

I just opened the file for the next battle at Cristot with our 8/3.....

It seems to me we are very short on infantry I count 4 Rifle and 4 Bren squads plus a lot of G rated Rifles and 1/2 teams....no Commandos.

Now I haven't really played this GJS mod for some time, but as I remember this 8/3 BG was one of the first in action during a GC and I'm sure at line settings it had far more than that, and the Recruit level should add to this....I've looked at it in the scenario editor for GJS and it has lots of teams.

Before I bring this up, you guys who play this mod regularly can you tell me if this looks right to you? as it could well be that I'm mistaken and this is correct.

Cheers
Ronson

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Post  RD_Steiner Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:42 pm

i looked at it......its hard to tell really.....i play the mod allot but theres so many BG's to remember for sure and i usually play german, so.....
what i think is the time of the GC affects what the BG make up might be......thats why there is no commando's, and green rifle squads. if the GC was on the 1st day there would be commando's. even if you reinforce it you dont get any commando's or any more of anything else squad wise.
there is till avre's and croc's because allot of those funny's didnt show up until later in the GC.....the croc's espicially i believe.

i also expected more stuff on recruit......the game editor shows far more equipment, and i always thought that that was what the setting in the game editor showed...recruit.

so how do you get all that equipment???

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Post  dgfred1 Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:18 pm

But didn't Wruff tinker with the units some?

After seeing that German entry point at Lingvres Shocked ... I am hoping that doesn't happen at Cristot or Bois Du Bavent Evil or Very Mad . Would that mess up our units supply too?Man, X sure fought well both there and at Rauray. Way to go X!

Hey Ronson,
I've been thinking about Gavrus... Since I doubt we can disband them there or bust clear thru their defenses (or can we?), should we think about withdrawing back to Villers to help out in the NW battle after this turn. Or maybe the turn after? Feels like they are luring us in there.
Holding at Orne Bridge and Pegasus does not seem to be a problem yet because of solid fighting by our Team.


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Post  dgfred1 Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:40 pm

I opened the file too:

Yes, only 4 Bren Sections and 4 Rifle Groups. No Commandos, 1 AVRE, 1 CROC, and 3 M10s. There are 4 FIREFLYS.

Our entry there (Cristot) is the south middle- Germans are at north middle. To get the Bretteville VL we are gonna have to rush for it immediately over open ground OR solidify our defense in the south village and think about grabbing it late in the battle. What do you guys think?

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Post  dgfred1 Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:55 pm

Regarding the NW VLs and if we were to lose all of them, according to that link to GJS Strat map with points shown.

Villers = 17
Hottot = 16
Juvigny = 18
Cristot = 17

*So that is 68 total Points/ We started at about 395 so if we lost all of them, and didn't get other maps elsewhere... it would drop us BELOW the Minor Victory level which was somewhere around 350 or so. I don't know if that would give the Germans a minor victory or not... I wouldn't think it would unless they took some more in the middle or south.

??? Lingevres = 17
We have lost Tilly (17) already but we are contesting at Lingevres that was originally German.

*****Just remember I'm not positive if those are the correct point totals or not, or if in our game each map is valued the same as in the link.

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Post  dgfred1 Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:01 pm

RD_Steiner wrote:looks good Colonel Ronson Smile

i agree...theres no reason for us to move into Thoan or cruelly. very bad deploys for us on both those maps. time is on our side not theres Cool

Do you think that after the game started that some of the German units enter where they might traditionally in the GC? If so, would that effect our deploys too if we attacked?

For instance I don't understand their deploy at Tilley in your battle, or Lingevres for X's battle. At Cristot Germans are North and Allies are South deploys, just like both entered map... it is confusing.

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Post  dgfred1 Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:24 pm

Hey Steiner,
When you say 'rotate your armor out' does that mean take your armor out completely or changing them to a fresh unit because of the short supply? Just want to make sure.

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Post  dgfred1 Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:51 am

I'm sorry for so many questions, but the game is so fluid. I wish we could pause a bit and let everyone check in with ideas/suggestions/reports/etc at least before the next turn.

PLEASE RESPOND, THIS IS MY FIRST TEAM WAR AND HAVE ONLY PLAYED ABOUT 10 H2H ONLINE CC5 MATCHES.

1. Could the player of the last battle of the round PLEASE post the CAMPAIGN TOTAL Casualties and losses? KIA/WIA - Armor/Vehicles/Guns. Also the current victory determination like major or minor victory/defeat. This is very important to me.

2. Does the rule of Wruff's about not having a VL on one side of a river and deploying there apply at Gavrus? What I am asking is if the Germans can deploy on the North side of the river at all.

3. Looking at Cristot at the present moment it seems to be a vital map... because of our units in the NW being short of supply. Can we hold those maps (we are currently in Rd 3 of 20) for nearly 16 more rounds short of supply? Do we have to knock the Germans completely out of Cristot to regain full supply?

4. If we can somehow attack into Bayeux or Thaon, would it put the German units in the NW attacks short of supply or the ones thrusting in the middle?

5. It feels like we are counter-punching/reacting in a fairly expected manner... maybe we should think about doing something offensive/unexpected like an attack in those maps that we might not be expected to do so. Our fairly tough units with armor/ other support like the 22/7 in Tailleville (+ Naval) and the 9/3 in Hermanville are just waiting. What about a right hook from us to counter their NW axis moves? What about going back into Tilley with the 9/3 CDN? Something odd/unexpected might give them pause somewhere... I don't know, that is why I am asking.

6. Is it considered bad play to put a tank/HT on the bridges at Orne or Pegasus, on the defensive but also there to block the bridge if it is knocked out? Or is it like 'all's fair in love and WAR'?

*Once again, PLEASE note Campaign Total Casualties at the end of each round!

***I'm having a great time being involved in the game and am highly impressed by our Team's play so far. Thanks for your understanding and help. It is appreciated.


Cool

Thanks again, and HAPPY NEW YEAR to Steiner's Hero's geek










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Post  RD_Steiner Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:54 am

1. Could the player of the last battle of the round PLEASE post the CAMPAIGN TOTAL Casualties and losses? KIA/WIA - Armor/Vehicles/Guns. Also the current victory determination like major or minor victory/defeat. This is very important to me.

2. Does the rule of Wruff's about not having a VL on one side of a river and deploying there apply at Gavrus? What I am asking is if the Germans can deploy on the North side of the river at all.

3. Looking at Cristot at the present moment it seems to be a vital map... because of our units in the NW being short of supply. Can we hold those maps (we are currently in Rd 3 of 20) for nearly 16 more rounds short of supply? Do we have to knock the Germans completely out of Cristot to regain full supply?

4. If we can somehow attack into Bayeux or Thaon, would it put the German units in the NW attacks short of supply or the ones thrusting in the middle?

5. It feels like we are counter-punching/reacting in a fairly expected manner... maybe we should think about doing something offensive/unexpected like an attack in those maps that we might not be expected to do so. Our fairly tough units with armor/ other support like the 22/7 in Tailleville (+ Naval) and the 9/3 in Hermanville are just waiting. What about a right hook from us to counter their NW axis moves? What about going back into Tilley with the 9/3 CDN? Something odd/unexpected might give them pause somewhere... I don't know, that is why I am asking.

6. Is it considered bad play to put a tank/HT on the bridges at Orne or Pegasus, on the defensive but also there to block the bridge if it is knocked out? Or is it like 'all's fair in love and WAR'?



1] we will try to remember

2] at Garus the river can be crossed any where...so yes the german can deploy on the north side of the river. wruff rule only applys to bodys of water or rivers that can ONLY be crossed by bridges and the water when u right click over it says DEEP WATER...which cannot be crossed.

3] yes we need to knock the german right out of Christot to get full supply back....i did a shit job of stopping them from taking too much ground.
no i dont think we can hold the map for 16 more turns but we might be able to take it back depending on where his Panthers end up.....

4] if we cut across Thaon and Bayeux we would still need to hold Lingereves as well. Lingereves is also a german full supply depot. remember he built the game with all this in mind Suspect

5] time is our allie...we have to wear his good BG's down with equip losses and then perhaps counter attack. thats why we need you to figure out the map PTS so we know what maps we need to hold at the end to have a minor Victory. i think the map PT value has something to do with how many VLs each map actually has??
to hook north west as we keep saying, is suicide....the deploys as we come on against those german BG's is not good........we would take a shit kicking. maybe at the end of the OP if we need VL's and we have nothing to lose at that point.
if we move back into Tilly as a surprise i would expect him to move in behind us with the 21 PZ and cut us off as the panthers dismantle us in 1 or 2 turns....but this might be an idea just the same??? not sure who moves faster us or the panthers tho?? thats why ronson gets the big bucks.....to decide if this might be a good idea.

6] it is not bad form to block the bridges with a tank or a H/T....thats what i would do if we had to to stop his armour from crossing.....and i expect the rest of us to do that too if it comes to that. Twisted Evil

at Cristot the town [ the top of the town across the rd too ] and the bretteville VL are priority's to hold and expand on IMO

at HILL 112 Orne....use 2 mortor teams to knock out his open topped TD's.....put your mortors up close in a hedge etc and drop mortor bombs on his TD's when they come in close. group the mortors to fire as 1 unit.

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Post  RD_Steiner Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:19 am

dgfred
at Lingereves when the german PZ GD BG spawned there...the PC picks where it will deploy.......it changes each time the game / map is opened up. so you see wruff was hoping that BG would deploy on our exit VL and he had us cut off before we even started.
i hoped the the german would deploy on the right side of the map.
the PC dropped him next to our exit VL No
this has nothing to do with anything historical un fortunatly.

you get a meeting engagement when both BG's enter an un contested map [ ie no BG there to start ] and the BG's enter the map according to the road net work and the VL from the map they are leaving.

except for the magic time warp jump from rauray to Lingereves and vice versa ...yes you can move from lingereves to rauray and vice a versa.....WHICH IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD CONSIDER COL. RONSON??? HMMMMMMmmmmm interesting thought eh??? lets not lose the rauray VL at Lingereves Gents.....

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Post  RD_Knights-X Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:02 am

Just chiming in as I monitor the campaign from my current non-playing.... "cat-bird".... position (I'm away from home for the holidays). I suggest we consider pushing a little harder on Gravus and Hill 112 maps to possibly drive Jerry off them. We could re-establish our supply situation to the NW maps/BGs if so.

Capt Steiner reminded us that Jerry's open topped mobile AT guns on Hill 112 should be easy targets for mortars. Jerry also has towed AT guns he can place too. Those Churchill Mrk IVs can be tough against what Jerry has...except any lurking towed 88mm AT guns. With inf support, those Churchill tks should be effective. So, try to clean out the wooded area on the right flank of our bridgehead.

Food for thought.... Good hunting commanders!

Ps. dgfred....Don't be apologetic for questions. As many like to say, "the only bad question, is the one that doesn't get asked."

BTW...Happy New Year (almost) to you guys! Keep those news reports coming from the front.

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Post  RD Ronson Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:53 am

Yes by all means keep those questions coming, thank you Capt. Steiner for your answers too.

Good fighting this morning (Day17).. its going to get tougher though as those strong german BGs push in......I don't think the 9/3 CDN would last one round by re-entering Tilley against the Panther BG, it will have its work cut out to last out just surviving in Juvigny, his armour BGs seem to have endless quality infantry (no 4 rifle and 4 Mg squads for the jerries! lol).

We will continue to defend hard in the NW however and keep as much of Lingevres as possible, yes we will hold that Rauray exit, at least it will offer an escape route and reunite our forces.

Its possible we could get somewher in Gavrus, he does have 9 guns there though so be careful , his guns outnumber our tanks!.

What the views on Rauray? XLegione had another good result there, I was VERY surprised that a 6pdr couldn't take out a Stug III, maybe just bad luck. The question is do we push the 44/15 tank bg into there or continue with the 146/49?.

Offensive action at Hill112 is possible, we have 3 Churchills left but again we face numerous guns and the Marders can damage the Churchills too...I suggest we continue to wear him away taking out those Marders if we can before we go over to an offensive.

In the South we do have a real chance to even things up a bit. We are attacking into Bavent this turn and we actually have an advantage here so we should be able to take a fair amount of that map. we'll continue to hold at Pegusus. The MkIVs shouldn't prove too tough for our 6pdrs and we have a back up in the form of the 22/7 ready to retake the bridge should the situation demand it.

The Eastern BGs of 8/3Cdn and 9/3 will stay in place for now, our reserve of 231/50 is centrally placed and can go towards the North west moving into Abbaye next turn.

In Cristot its vital that both the Carpequet and Bretteville VL remain under our control to preserve a solid front.

Finally ....would you as commanders prefer I allocate support to defensive or offensive operations? at the moment as you have seen I tend towards the defensive, however should you wish this can be ammended.


Happy New Year to you all, I hope to see some of you this afternoon in GR, otherwise see you in 2012:)

Cheers
Ronson

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